"WE'RE HOPING THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER CHILD"

By WALTER ISAACSON

Hillary Rodham Clinton met last week with TIME managing editor Walter Isaacson and talked about her activism on behalf of children. The issue may not be just abstract. She and the President are talking about having another child, she said, or adopting one. Excerpts:

TIME: How do you help Chelsea cope with being in the political spotlight?

Mrs. Clinton: When she was six, Bill and I talked about how we could prepare her for the meanspiritedness and slings and arrows that come with political life. At dinners her father would pretend to be running against Bill Clinton, and he would say something like "Don't vote for Bill Clinton. He's a terrible person, and he's mean to people." Chelsea got big tears in her eyes. At a series of dinners, we would do this.

TIME: What are you doing this time?

Mrs. Clinton: Oh, it's going to be a very tough campaign. She follows the news; she's interested in issues. She's come to understand about what is said in politics now. When we started all this, I expected her to hear a lot of mean things about her father. I wasn't prepared for having as much attention as I have received. When I was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury, usually it's I who goes to her and says, "You want to talk about what's going on in the news?" But this time it was Bill who went to her and said, "You want to talk about what's going on with your mom?" He sat down and talked to her.

TIME: He went though all the details?

Mrs. Clinton: No, we just explained the process. She obviously shares our view that all these investigations are politically inspired. My larger point is I think everyone should really think about how to prepare children once they get to be a certain age for the realities of life.

TIME: You've said Mrs. Onassis helped.

Mrs. Clinton: In June of '92 I went to her apartment and had lunch, and it was one of the most delightful and helpful things. We got to talk about how you give your children in the glare of public life a sense of personal space, privacy, self-confidence. She told me how she looked for ways to have her children accept responsibility. She would expect John and Caroline to be on time to go to school, and if they weren't ready, the car would go ahead without them, so they would know they would have to abide by the rules.

TIME: You've had trouble having kids. Have you ever considered adoption?

Mrs. Clinton: Well, we have talked about it. I must say we're hoping that we have another child.

TIME: Are you still hoping you'll have a second child?

Mrs. Clinton: (Laughing) I have to tell you I would be surprised but not disappointed. My friends would be appalled, I'm sure. But I think it would be terrific.

TIME: So are you considering adoption ?

Mrs. Clinton: We continue to talk about it. Because we really believe in adoption, and I have worked hard to promote adoption, particularly for older kids and across racial lines and kids with special needs. We'd have to think hard, especially if it were an older child, about the pressures of the White House on a child like that. We've thought about it.

TIME: What has been your involvement with adoption legislation?

Mrs. Clinton: There are several pieces of legislation that I have supported. One of them began the process of eliminating the prohibition that many states had used against adopting across racial lines. I also support giving some tax relief to people who adopt.

TIME: When did the two of you start considering adopting?

Mrs. Clinton: Well, "considering" may be too strong. I think "talking about" it...We have, off and on, for a long time.

TIME: Are you talking about it more now?

Mrs. Clinton: Yeah, I think we're talking about it more now. We'd obviously wait to get serious about it until after the election. There's just too much going on in our lives right now. I just think that giving a child a chance and sharing what you have with a child is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself, as well as a child. So I hope that something will come of our thinking about it.

TIME: Might you do a cross-racial adoption?

Mrs. Clinton: We haven't gone into that kind of detail.

TIME: What do you think of the proposals for building more orphanages and group homes?

Mrs. Clinton: I think there are situations that, both involuntarily and voluntarily, could be appropriate for the placement of children in well-run and carefully staffed orphanages. But I think it's a very difficult issue.

TIME: You've been more forceful than some people in arguing for severing parental rights in certain cases, right?

Mrs. Clinton: Yes. I have seen a lot of situations in which families have abdicated their responsibilities to their children. At some point a child's rights deserve careful attention, and some parents do not deserve continued authority over their children. I know there's a lot of debate about this, and I was criticized during the '92 campaign for my 1973 article about children's rights, but anyone who has dealt with abuse knows that at some point you've got to make a very tough decision.

TIME: What do you feel about the Republican push for what is known as "parental rights"?

Mrs. Clinton: The current [Republican] legislation would create a right for individual parents to make decisions that would affect not only their own child but other children as well. I believe there should be parental opt-outs if you don't want your child attending a certain health class, say, about sex education. But I don't think that gives parents who object to it on behalf of their own children the right to prohibit other parents who think it is in line with their values for their children to be given such information. Or that parents who on religious grounds oppose the teaching of evolution should have the right to deny their child the access to information about evolution so the child can make his or her own decision.

TIME: Regarding the debate over welfare reform and the Wisconsin plan that your husband and Bob Dole have endorsed, do you think it makes sense to force a single mother of a young child to go to work instead of staying home and taking care of the child?

Mrs. Clinton: I've thought about that a lot. For a certain population trapped in generational poverty, what we've done hasn't worked. I think getting up and going to work, going to school, and having to make the same difficult decisions about who cares for your children that every other working mother has to make is a necessary step toward learning how to be self-sufficient. Yes, people who are physically able to work ought to work. Now having said that, I think they ought to have child-care support and they ought to have some benefits to take care of their children medically. But I don't think it's fair to subsidize some people and say they shouldn't have to leave their children when millions of women do it every day.

TIME: Do you think divorce should be made more difficult?

Mrs. Clinton: When you're responsible for children, you have to put their interests at least equal with if not ahead of your own. There is a lot of evidence about the traumas and difficulties that divorced mothers face, financially and emotionally, and also about what happens to the children. I know there are many instances where a situation is intolerable. But what I would hope is that we would be more honest talking about the costs of divorce, and when parents seek a divorce, there would be a waiting or cooling-off period when counseling programs would be available, maybe even required.

TIME: Do you plan another health-care initiative, this time focused on children, such as a "Kidcare" program that would be a counterpart to Medicare?

Mrs. Clinton: The President has said that in a second term he would look at how we could come up with a realistic, effective way of insuring kids. I think that would be a very good step for the country. Kids are cheaper to insure than us older, creakier people, but when they're sick, they are often more acutely sick. I just don't understand how anybody can look at these children, who are usually the children of working parents, and not feel that we have a responsibility to help them get the medical care they deserve.

TIME: Has there been a rift between you and children's activist Marian Wright Edelman since her "open letter" to the President advocating more spending on children's needs?

Mrs. Clinton: I don't feel that at all. I was attracted to Marian when I was in law school because of her passion. She does what she does better than anyone else in the country. But understand that in the political process you may have to take it one step at a time. Looking at Marian and looking at my husband, I see two people who both care deeply about what happens to children, and they have different roles.

TIME: Are you going to be part of Stand for Children?

Mrs. Clinton: Yes, I'm going to be at the Kennedy Center on Friday night. I'm going to do everything I can to help support it.