"WE ARE NOT AN AVERAGE NATION"

By Christopher Redman, THOMAS SANCTON

Last month, before the strikes and demonstrations that have created a crisis in France began, an upbeat Jacques Chirac met with TIME Europe editor Christopher Redman and Paris bureau chief Thomas Sancton to discuss his views of France, Europe and the world. It was the first interview Chirac has granted to any foreign publication since his election as President in May. Excerpts from their conversation:

TIME: Mr. President, what are your main objectives as you lead France into the next century?

Chirac: The bipolar world we have known is finished, and the world of tomorrow will be multipolar. One of the essential poles will be Europe. I think that the first objective of my term in office will be to work for the success of Europe. The second will be NATO modernization and the creation of a European defense pillar within the alliance. The third objective is to develop solidarity between Europe and two zones that are linked to it: the Mediterranean and Africa. The fourth objective is to confront certain important problems, such as aid to developing countries, unemployment, monetary stability, drugs and terrorism, and to try to provide solutions.

TIME: How do you assess France's main strengths and weaknesses in facing these challenges?

Chirac: France has important advantages: it is the world's fourth economic and commercial power, a permanent member of the Security Council, a nuclear power and the main contributor of troops to the U.N. We are not an average nation. France also has an old humanist and universalist tradition, strongly attached to human rights and democracy...Our weaknesses are mainly the result of 14 years of lax management, which consisted of spending more than was reasonable and led to the accumulation of deficits and debts. [Another weakness] is a certain resistance to change...The labor unions and professional organizations have a lot of trouble understanding that there are necessary evolutions [and that] it is better to spend money putting people to work than to pay them not to work.

TIME: How would you describe the state of Franco-American relations today?

Chirac: Apart from certain superficial crises, relations have always been excellent, and will remain so because it is in the nature of things. You can't change two centuries of history. [But] I will not hide the fact that I am very worried about the isolationism of the current American Congress. Concerning aid to developing countries, for example, the European Union, with a gdp roughly equivalent to America's, spends some $31 billion a year and the U.S. $9 billion. I think that the one who pays is the one who has the political power in the final analysis. I hope President Clinton will react against this alarming tendency toward a sort of isolationism that is very dangerous for the whole world.

TIME: You played an important role in unblocking the situation in Bosnia. Do you resent the fact that the U.S. took control of the peace process?

Chirac: No, not at all. The Americans are one year away from presidential elections, so it's a highly politicized time for them. So I take that into account. Besides, it is by joining our efforts that we put the peace process on track, and I intend to maintain the same level of cooperation.

TIME: Are you worried about American cultural imperialism?

Chirac: No, not at all, because the Americans do fantastic things in many cultural domains. However, I do not want to see European culture sterilized or obliterated by American culture for economic reasons that have nothing to do with real culture. That is why I am for the cultural exception [i.e., leaving cultural productions out of international free-trade agreements], and especially for production and distribution quotas. I am very firm on that point.

TIME: What future do you see for the U.S.-led Atlantic community?

Chirac: I am naturally favorable to the Atlantic Alliance. Today it must undergo a modernization, especially on two levels. First, there must be a real European defense component, because there is no civilization that can survive for long if it is not capable of defending itself. So I think that we must create a sort of European defense pillar around the Western European Union, naturally linked to the American pillar within the framework of the Atlantic Alliance. Second, it is evident that the Atlantic Alliance must expand eastward. But I say simply that we must be careful to reach an agreement with the Russians that will permit this enlargement without threatening or humiliating them. Russia is a great power, a great people, and we must treat them with consideration and respect. That's why I tell certain American politicians that it would be a mistake not to be careful with Russia.

TIME: What surprised you most about the international reaction to renewed nuclear testing?

Chirac: I imagined the reactions would be sharp, especially because certain organizations specialize in feeding such reactions, but I think they have been overestimated. For example, we have closely monitored French sales abroad--including [in] the countries most critical of us--and have seen no effect in this area. In 1992 France interrupted its tests for political reasons before the completion of our program. It was indispensable to carry out several more to ensure the security and reliability of our arsenal. Finally, not only will France sign the nuclear test-ban treaty [in 1996], it was also the first country to call for the zero option, that is, a ban even on small tests.

TIME: Can you envision a future for France outside the European Union?

Chirac: No! Look at the great tendencies: everything shows that the world is moving toward larger ensembles. It is not possible for a country to go it alone if it wants to remain great and strong.

TIME: Some observers fear that the single European currency will limit France's sovereignty. What do you think of that objection?

Chirac: First of all, let me say that I am not an ideologue, I am a pragmatist. What is the single currency? It is simply the achievement of stable exchange rates. France has always stressed the necessity of stable rates. Behind all the passion and polemics, the single currency is simply the return to fixed exchange rates, which is a necessity in our eyes. In no way does this threaten France's sovereignty.

TIME: Most European Union countries, including France, cannot yet meet all the criteria of the Maastricht Treaty. Wouldn't some delay in the single currency or a relaxation of the very strict criteria make sense?

Chirac: No. The criteria are what they are, but they simply express the need to act like responsible and serious people. So as far as I am concerned, I am not inclined to change anything at all. I do regret that France, in 1993, did not do what Germany and Britain did, that is, begin an effort to adjust and especially to reduce its deficits. This obliges us to do in 21/2 years what the others will have done in five. That's obviously more difficult.

TIME: What can you do about France's persistent unemployment problem?

Chirac: Because there are many variables we can work on, I am sure that we will find the necessary policies to return to a more or less normal situation. There is the length of the workday or workweek, for example, and new kinds of jobs. Half the professions that will exist 10 years from now are not even known today.

TIME: How do you explain your low standing in the polls these days?

Chirac: You know, I have never paid any attention to the polls for two reasons. The first is that I think they are generally wrong; the second is that I think a politician should be a leader and not a follower. That means he should base his decisions on the commitments he has made, on his idea of the future, on his vision of the country, and not on public opinion. I have seven years before me and a great determination, so of course it is not the polls that will give me doubts.

TIME: Can your recent low ratings somehow be reversed?

Chirac: [Smiles.] I am absolutely sure of it. I'm an optimist by nature.