Mandela and De Klerk Speak Out

By Nelson Mandela

NELSON MANDELA

Q. How important a milestone is the setting of the election date?

A. This decision to have an election by April 27 introduces an element of irreversibility. It is a landmark.

Q. Is it a safe assumption that you will be the next President of South Africa?

A. (Chuckling) Some of the young men would not agree with you because they all want to be President. The opinion polls say that if elections were held today, the A.N.C. would probably win by an outright majority. It is then for the A.N.C. to decide who should be President. We have many dynamic people, and I would be prepared to serve under them.

Q. Do you believe De Klerk's National Party will abide by the results of the election?

A. I have no reason to doubt they are negotiating in good faith. But of course their concept of democracy is different from yours and mine. We have already encountered this problem in their concept of power sharing, which to them means the party that loses the elections should continue to govern. Now we have moved them away from that, and they are coming to accept our concept of a government of national unity which is based on majority rule. We are saying all political parties with a substantial following should be included in government, so we can face problems together.

Q. But in the end, won't their bottom line be permanent power sharing?

A. My view is that they are moving away from that bottom line.

Q. Can you deliver on people's expectations, or is the damage of apartheid too deep?

A. Forty years of apartheid have been like 40 years of war. Our economy and our social life have been completely devastated, in some respects beyond repair. That was the situation in Europe after the last World War. What the Western world did was to mobilize their resources and introduce Marshall Plan aid to ensure that the countries of Europe devastated by the war recovered. What we expect -- and this is a matter which I'm going to raise with President Clinton -- is that the Western world, led by the U.S., should ensure that massive measures of assistance are given to the people of South Africa so we can address their expectations.

Q. What do you say to your supporters who don't want to share power with former practitioners of apartheid?

A. Last week I met the executive committee of the African National Congress Youth League, which has been vocal in criticizing the government of national unity. Quite understandably, they say, "These are the people who have been oppressing us since 1948. We are on the verge of overthrowing apartheid and their government, and now you say we must work with these people." That is perfectly reasonable. But we discussed the matter at length, and at the end of that meeting they accepted that the strategy of a government of national unity is a correct one.

Q. And what about those on the right who fear and might resist black majority rule?

A. In the referendum last year, the right wing polled no less than 800,000 votes. In addition, they have got a substantial section of the civil service, the police force, the army, which support them. Now they have said if the A.N.C. wins the elections and establishes the government, they will take up arms. That is the threat facing us. It's a serious threat, but we aren't overly concerned. We have to reorganize the police force and make sure it is capable of defending democracy.

Q. Can you think of any precedent for a minority that has held power for centuries and surrendered it peacefully?

A. We are now making joint decisions with that minority. They said they would never talk with the A.N.C., and they fought almost every election on that basis. We have made them sit down and talk to us. We are now together planning the future South Africa. They have had to unban the A.N.C., to lift the state of emergency, to allow a climate of free political activity, which they had not allowed for more than 40 years. They have released political prisoners, allowed political exiles to return to the country, amended and even repealed repressive legislation, and agreed on the installation of a transitional executive council. And now they are agreeing with us on a date for an election in the country.

Q. Why have they cooperated?

A. I think they realized that not only were the overwhelming majority of South Africans prepared to fight for the right to run their lives, but the whole international community was against South Africa.

Q. So, did sanctions work?

A. Oh, there is no doubt.

Q. Should sanctions now be lifted?

A. We have come to the verge of calling them off. Our official policy was that until free and fair elections were held, we would maintain sanctions. But the problems facing our country -- 7 million people unemployed, rocketing crime, the violence and so on -- has made us revise our time frame. If the transitional executive council is installed and if an election date is set, we would call off sanctions.

Q. Three and a half years ago, you were still under arrest. Now you're engaged in the process of rebuilding the country. Did you ever think this was going to happen in your lifetime?

A. There were definitely moments when I was not so certain this day would come. But as you know, I did send a message that was read by my daughter at a public meeting attended by Archbishop Tutu where I said, "I will return." So that perception was always there. But that doesn't mean there were not moments when I doubted whether this moment would come. But the strength of the struggle in the country and the support of the international community has always been powerful, and that kept our morale very high, and it made us feel that the forces of change were too powerful to be ignored by the government.

Q. Many have commented about your lack of bitterness. How could you put the past behind you?

A. Perhaps if I was idle and did not have a job to do, I would be as bitter as others. But because I have been given a job to do, I have not had time to think about the cruel experiences I've had. I'm not unique. Others have every reason to be more bitter than I. There are countless people who went to jail and aren't bitter at all, because they can see that their sacrifices were not in vain, and the ideas for which we lived and sacrificed are about to come to fruition. And that removes the bitterness from their hearts.