An Interview with Mandela

By Scott MacLeod/Rome

Q. De Klerk seems to put a great deal of stock in your leadership. To what extent are you concerned with his political survival?

A. We are aware of the problems that he has, especially from the right wing and possibly from inside his own party as well. What we have done is to appeal ( to whites to assist De Klerk. We are also trying to address the problem of white opposition to him. Discussions have already been started with influential sectors in the right wing.

Q. What contacts has your organization had with the right wing?

A. We don't want to go into those details now because these are very delicate negotiations.

Q. Can you say which organizations?

A. We'd rather not. We are dealing with influential individuals in the right wing. I don't want to go beyond that, except to say that our intention is to mobilize the entire right wing to support Mr. De Klerk, to support the peace initiative.

Q. Any success?

A. From the meetings that we've had, it seems as if our message for a peaceful solution is very strong.

Q. What would be the danger if De Klerk were removed from the party leadership or ousted in the next election?

A. I have no doubt that whatever difficulties he has, he will remain in power. The only danger he must try to avoid is going back to white voters for any mandate he might like to have. The right wing in my view is quite strong. I am saying to him that he should act jointly with us in trying to reach a negotiated settlement as speedily as possible. Once a nonracial constitution is introduced, then everybody will have the vote. He will be assured of the vote of the overwhelming majority of South Africans. But if he goes for a mandate for whites alone, he is in danger.

Q. Why have you not been able to end the fighting in Natal?

A. If it were a question of conflict between Mangosuthu Buthelezi's Inkatha ((movement)) and the A.N.C., we would have solved this matter long ago. But my problem is the government, because what is happening in Natal is no longer a clash between the A.N.C. and Inkatha. The government has taken advantage of the clash between the two organizations to crush the A.N.C. and eliminate its membership in Natal. I have asked De Klerk the simple question, Why has the government failed to suppress that violence for more than 4 1/2 years, and when almost 4,000 people have died? And De Klerk has never been able to give me a satisfactory answer.

Q. Wouldn't it help if you met with Buthelezi? It is an important question.

A. It is not important to us. There are six homeland leaders in South Africa. We are working with five. What is the importance of Buthelezi? I don't see it.