The Alternative Is Dictatorship

By Jason McManus and Eduard Shevardnadze

Shortly before going to Washington, Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze met with a TIME group, led by editor in chief Jason McManus. Excerpts:

Q. President Bush seems to be trying hard not to make Lithuania a point of contention between our two countries. Is that your perception too?

A. I am convinced that your President is not interested in seeing a deterioration in U.S.-Soviet relations. I have no doubt that he is interested in the success of perestroika. This is a realistic policy. Sometimes people / say -- I always do -- that there is no alternative to perestroika. That is not completely true. There is an alternative. If perestroika fails, then we will see a dictator come to power. And everyone knows what a dictatorship means. Without overstating the case, it is in the interest of our entire human civilization for perestroika, democratization and the renewal of our country to succeed. I think the U.S. Administration understands this.

Q. How do you feel about a united Germany belonging to NATO?

A. At a press conference in southern Africa, I was asked a similar question. I said we are a hospitable nation, and we invite a new united Germany to join the Warsaw Pact. Why not? That would be an interesting, unorthodox option. But, it is said, that would not suit the West.

Why can't Germany stay an independent state, outside of any military or political alliance? What is so bad about having a neutral state in the heart of Europe with a status that would be acceptable to all in East and West? There are also some unexpected options to think about: for example, a new united Germany with responsibilities to both NATO and the Warsaw Pact. There are possibilities for discussion here.

Q. How would this dual responsibility to NATO and the Warsaw Pact work?

A. I cannot say right now, but we have some ideas. There is one thing I am convinced of: a united Germany, when it comes about, should consider itself a full-fledged member of the European community of nations. This united Germany should become a major factor in the stability of Europe.

Q. You have just been named to Mikhail Gorbachev's Presidential Council. What is this new body, and how does it fit in with existing institutions like the Politburo?

A. Presidential power and the entire system of presidential rule in our country are in the formative stage. The Politburo will deal with purely political and party matters; its leadership will try to exercise its influence through the activities of its members. I believe this is similar to how the Republican and Democratic parties work in your country.

The President, as defined in our constitution, is responsible for the general state of domestic and foreign policy. The members of his council will be his advisers. In addition, each member will have his own sphere of responsibility.

From the first days of perestroika, I was in favor of introducing presidential rule, but at that time, I found myself in the minority. We have come to realize now that the presidency is a necessary and useful institution. Its main task is to protect democracy.