And Now, Nice-Guy Talk Hosts

By Richard Zoglin

Morton Downey Jr. has turned foul temper into a TV style. Geraldo Rivera continues to test the bounds of tawdry sensationalism. Phil, Oprah and Sally Jessy race to outdo one another in pursuit of the odd, the aberrant and the kinky. But something even more bizarre and audacious is about to appear on the talk-show scene. Make way for . . . the nice guys.

Well, at least they seem nice so far. Pat Sajak is the low-key, dryly sardonic host of TV's most popular game show, Wheel of Fortune. Starting next Monday, he will appear, bereft of Vanna White and those fabulous prizes, as host of the Pat Sajak Show, CBS's first late-night talk program in 17 years. Arsenio Hall, who co-starred with Eddie Murphy in the movie Coming to America, made his own TV splash as Joan Rivers' boyishly enthusiastic replacement on the Fox network's Late Show. This week he will rejoin the late-night fray on a permanent basis as host of the Arsenio Hall Show, syndicated on 135 stations.

Sajak and Hall will compete against each other in many cities, but their main target is that unyielding edifice of late night, the Tonight show, starring Johnny Carson. The mission might seem suicidal. A gaggle of talk hosts, from Joey Bishop to Alan Thicke, have emerged over the years to challenge Carson, only to slink away in failure. But Sajak and Hall have one potential advantage: they could simply outlast Carson. After 26 years behind the desk, the NBC veteran may be nearing retirement, though neither he nor NBC will comment on whether he expects to continue beyond September. Even with substitute host Jay Leno in place as heir apparent, the post-Carson field is wide open.

Sajak and Hall are avoiding at least one mistake made by their predecessors: trying to be too different. Thicke of the Night attempted an offbeat mix of comedy and talk but misfired badly. Rivers brought a more abrasive edge and some attempts at wacky stunts to the format but failed to catch on. Only Late Night with David Letterman, with its hip, self-parodying pose, has succeeded in cutting a new path. Letterman's influence will be evident in both shows: each, for example, plans to take the camera outside the studio occasionally. But mostly the newcomers are following the old-fashioned approach: a band, a couch and an easygoing, plain-folks appeal. Not since the heyday of Merv Griffin and Mike Douglas have talk shows been so user friendly.

On paper at least, Sajak, 42, has the right credentials. While growing up in Chicago, he used to sneak out of bed to watch Jack Paar and decided that doing a talk show "would be a fun way to earn a living." He became a radio disk jockey, TV weatherman and local talk-show host; then in 1981 he replaced Chuck Woolery on Wheel of Fortune. Part of the show's success can be traced to his laid-back, let's-not-take-this-seriously attitude. Indeed, Sajak has trouble taking even himself seriously. "No matter how charming and delightful I am," he says, "I knew that people tuned in ((to Wheel of Fortune)) to see the game, not me. Still, 40 million viewers know my name and may look in out of curiosity -- just to see what this clown can do."

Many already know what Hall can do. His 13-week stint on the Late Show was a ratings success and ended only because Fox had previously committed itself to the Wilton North Report (yet another late-night failure). A Cleveland native, Hall started his show-biz career as a stand-up comic and became host of the TV series Solid Gold. But he claims he has wanted to do a talk show since age twelve: he calls Carson his "idol" and, like Johnny, was a child magician. When Paramount TV initially offered him his own show, Hall was reluctant, but he had a vision as a guest with Carson. "During a commercial, he and I were comparing coin tricks," he says, "and I realized that it was my mission in life to do a talk show. I really want to be the Johnny Carson of the '90s."

The question is what kind of Johnny Carson the '90s will want. Hall, 29, attracts a relatively young audience and says he will have a "melting pot" of guests: "You'll see ((rap singer)) L.L. Cool J and ((country star)) Reba McEntire meeting each other." Sajak, who appeals to an older crowd, will have Barry Goldwater and Vanna White on one upcoming program, and hopes his show's 90-minute length will allow time for more than the usual plug-happy celebrities. "I've always admired Paar's knack of finding witty, interesting conversationalists from the ranks of character actors, politicians and authors," he says. A worthy goal -- maybe too worthy for the glitzy, competitive late-night arena.

Both programs are starting with healthy numbers. Sajak is being picked up by 90% of CBS affiliates, more than carry the network's current offerings. Hall's show also will reach 90% of the country with its lineup of independent stations. But producers and network executives are busily trying to lower expectations. "It's foolish to think you can knock off an institution like Carson just because you arrive on the scene," says CBS vice president Michael Brockman. Asserts Lucie Salhany, president of Paramount's domestic television division: "We're not out to get anybody. There's room for us all." Can this be the beginning of a kinder, gentler late night? Stay tuned.

With reporting by Elaine Dutka/Los Angeles