"He Would Be Lonely Without Me"

During a four-hour conversation that began in Taipei and continued aboard the flight to Manila, where he met his death, Benigno Aquino discussed his hopes and fears with TIME Correspondent Sandra Burton. Excerpts:

On his relationship with Marcos. I would write him from jail, telling him what my notions were. Sometimes he would call me presumptuous, but he would acknowledge the letter. One day when I talked to him in the palace, he said, "In a way, I envy you. You have earned your presence in history. I'm still fighting for mine. You have the luxury of communing with the gods and with the writers in prison, unmolested by anybody. You can pick up your book and talk to Plato one minute and to Toynbee the next, while I have to talk to all of these jokers."

Four times Marcos asked me, "Brother,* what would you do if I released you tomorrow? I said, "I don't know, because you keep me in the dark. I have not received any newspapers in five years. If people are happy, I'll just go home to my province and retire there, but if they are unhappy, then you can bet I'll be mounting a soap box. So if you think you've done well, release me. If not, don't release me, because it would only exacerbate the situation." He wanted me to give my word that I was throwing in the towel. Finally he said, "The law will have to take its course, suit yourself," and he gave me the death sentence. But they never carried it out. I always felt that he might not like me, but that I was a sparring mate for him, and he would be lonely without me.

On the President. Marcos is undergoing the tragedy of longevity in office. If he had pulled off the economic miracle, he could have gone down as one of the great Presidents. Unfortunately, he had no notion of the economic pitfalls, and he overborrowed and relied too much on technocrats. He was never an economist. You can be authoritarian in Asia, provided there is an economic tradeoff.

I happen to believe that Marcos is the only man who can return democracy peacefully. Before martial law the army did not participate in government, but they have tasted blood and power. Marcos made them partners. As long as he is alive, it's O.K., the army is loyal to him. But when he dies, they will take over. If that should happen, there would be polarization, and the left could come to power.

On how Aquino planned to campaign. I am not saying if we move in, we can solve the problems. Even St. Peter could not do that, but if we have a credible election in the Philippines, it will restore people's faith in some kind of institution. Today the people have no respect for anything. If you let this drift continue, then five years from now the left will be a factor in the Philippines. We can't win as long as Marcos is counting the votes, but we can force him to spend billions of pesos.

Some people have said I can be as ruthless as Marcos. I don't deny that. I admit you cannot run the Philippines with weak leadership. I believe in a strong presidency, but a strong presidency with checks: a free judiciary and a free press.

I would call in the business community, lock them up in the University of the Philippines, and tell them, "O.K., you are the guys most concerned. You work out your program and then give me your recommendations."

On relations with the U.S. Since Reagan won, the Americans have really distanced themselves from me. They look at me as a Dennis the Menace. I am a product of their system. But at the same time, while I may be a hard bargainer, they would much rather have me than the Communists. They may not love me, but they are stuck. I am realistic enough to know that you cannot demand removal of U.S. bases without encountering the ire of the U.S.

On the Communists, insurgents. I would be ruthless and tell the Communists, "You will be legitimized, you are going to have your chance to speak out. But don't forget: if you pick up the gun, you're illegal. If I pick it up, I'm legal. I can shoot you like a dog, so don't force my hand like that".

*Marcos and Aquino were fraternity brothers at the University of the Philippines. This file is automatically generated by a robot program, so viewer discretion is required.