"I Am Still a Caretaker'

Pakistan's Zia talks about the Soviets, the U.S. and Islam

Five and a half years ago, when the military seized power in Pakistan, Army Chief of Staff General Mohammed Zia ul-Haq lived in the modest bungalow in Rawalpindi where he still resides. As President, Zia might have moved into the official residence in Islamabad. But then, as now, the President seemed more content with the daily reminders of a soldier's life and duties. Last week, in his library, surrounded by the trophies, photographs and regimental emblems of a long military career, President Zia received TIME New Delhi Bureau Chief Dean Brelis. Excerpts t from the interview:

On Pakistan's security: Pakistan is faced with a problem next door, in Afghanistan, where the Soviet Union now has 100,000 troops. I don't think you can intimidate a nation like Pakistan with the presence of troops next door. But it has brought a qualitative change in the total geopolitical environment of this region. A superpower occupying a free country, an Islamic country, just because it wants to secure its underbelly, is something of great concern to us. Irrespective of the size, population or strength of a country, people have to exist in their own right, in accordance with international rules of business, of safeguarding their sovereignty.

On the Soviet Union: I know that the Soviet Union is looking for a solution to the Afghanistan problem. The Soviet Union is in difficulty. It is in difficulty internally. It is in difficulty in Poland. It is in difficulty in Kampuchea, indirectly. And it is in great difficulty in Afghanistan. This is my own view, and I hope I'm right: if they can find a face-saving device, the Soviets do want to withdraw from Afghanistan. As for Pakistan, we have made it abundantly clear that there are four basic principles upon which we cannot compromise: the Soviet troops must withdraw; the [Afghan] refugees must return to their homes with dignity; the nonaligned status of Afghanistan must be returned; and--I'm adding one on my own--we will accept an Afghanistan friendly to the Soviet Union.

On his upcoming meeting with President Reagan: In my own humble way I hope to let him know the perception that I have of my region. We're not a global power. We have regional interests. Sometimes looking at a region from 10,000 miles away, you can get a blurry picture. I hope that I will be able to present a clearer picture to President Reagan.

On the delivery of U.S.-built F-16s: Pakistan's military inventory is of Korean War vintage. We are not producers of military hardware, and we cannot afford to go out every two or three years and buy new equipment. We have to look ahead for 20 years. We are very grateful to President Reagan. When we got the offer of F-16s, we jumped. With this aircraft, our borders, which are now threatened by the Soviet presence in Afghanistan, will be somewhat secure. Of course, 40 planes cannot make all the difference, but the presence of a superior aircraft gives you at least that much moral as well as military ascendancy.

On relations with India: We want a peaceful relationship with India. The fear [of war] is more in the minds of Indians than it is in Pakistanis. India is a much larger country than Pakistan. Today there is a lobby inside India for a peaceful relationship--in the minds of intellectuals, journalists, common citizens. I noticed it in my very short stay [in New Delhi last month]. If there is good will in the leadership of the two countries, I see no reason why India and Pakistan cannot live in peace.

On the resurgence of Islam: The resurgence of Islam has different connotations in different environments. Please don't confuse fundamentalism in Islam, as seen by the West sometimes, with fanaticism or bigotry or rigidity. We in Pakistan feel that Islam has to be very flexible, accommodating the requirements of modern life. We feel that it is more than a religion. It encompasses your entire life. It was the Islamic movement that created this country; otherwise, we might well have been part of India. Islam is for everyone. We are trying to revive the ideology of Islam on which Pakistan was created. So in Pakistan you will not find a theocracy. We are trying to revive the moral values of society through a process of evolution, not revolution.

On Pakistan's nuclear capability: I am very categorical about this: Pakistan has no nuclear bomb. And Pakistan has no intentions of having a nuclear capability of JORDAN military significance. We have a modest nuclear capability for which we are trying to acquire a bit of technology for peaceful purposes. We have a nuclear plant in Karachi. We are trying to build another nuclear plant so that by 1984 the gap in our energy requirements will be filled. That is all.

On China: We view China as an emerging power that will play a very constructive role in Asia. It is China that has enabled us to stand on our own in the technological field, whether it be refitting tanks, aircraft or a fertilizer factory for the growth of agriculture. In our relationship of 20 years, of which nearly 16 have included very critical moments for this region, China has proved it is a power that believes in principles. China will contribute a lot to the future of Asia.

On future elections: I am still a caretaker. I am not an elected representative. I am the head of a military regime that is trying to look after this not-so-small region. We are at the crossroads of Southeast Asia and Southwest Asia. We are a backyard of the [Persian] Gulf. We are now a front-line state. Under these circumstances, we know that a lot of people are engaged in subversive activities. Pakistan today is the target of many countries. From the point of view of the Westerner, elections are a way of life. In Pakistan that is not so. We have lost half a country [formerly East Pakistan, now Bangladesh] as a result of the 1970 election. Elections to Pakistan are an anathema. Elections create crisis in Pakistan. A little while ago, politics in Pakistan meant violence, character assassination, polarization. It is my aim to inculcate positive Islamic values, and then, at the proper time, I will have no other option but to hold elections and let the people return their truly elected representatives. That time is in the not-too-distant future. It is not a decade away, but it is not weeks away. I think in a couple of years' time we should be able to have general elections at the national and provincial level.

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