An Interview with Mondale

'Reagan will fall like a crowbar... awfully fast"

A year ago, he was somewhat bored with his job. He occasionally napped in his office and sometimes slipped home early--to the point that the Georgians around Jimmy Carter complained that Vice President Walter Mondale was not working hard enough. But then came the crisis in Iran, and the President had to depend on his Vice President for much of the hard slogging of the primary campaigning. Now back in the good graces of Carter's inner circle, Mondale is looking forward eagerly to a strenuous regimen of four-day-a-week campaign swings, making slashing attacks on Ronald Reagan and defending the Carter record. Mondale seems not the least bit uncomfortable in this role, even though it has required him to trim many of his longstanding liberal views, which at one time placed him close to Edward Kennedy on many issues. Mondale's stomach is flat--thanks to tennis--and his face deeply tanned --thanks to a few days of fishing for striped bass off New Jersey. At breakfast last week with TIME editors and political correspondents, the 52-year-old Vice President offered some observations on the campaign. Excerpts:

Q. Will Senator Kennedy's harsh language during the primaries hurt you in the election?

A. I think that the public takes that with a lot of salt. They know that we politicians get tired, make mistakes, get angry, just as they do in their own lives. I remember Hubert Humphrey once said that Kennedy had all the substance of a paper doily, and then a week later, Hubert said that [Kennedy's stand on an issue] was the greatest thing in the history of mankind. You know, doilies are important.

Q. It is widely believed that the old Democratic coalition is breaking up. Do you agree?

A. When the campaign gets going, I think you'll see a very strong firming up of the traditional constituencies of this party: minorities, farmers, teachers, union members, blue-collar workers. I must be candid and say that we've got a long way to go. But I expect that we're going to see a dramatic closing of the gap [with Reagan] in the next month. For one thing, I think we already see John Anderson fading. That will strengthen us because we'll then have only one opponent. The other thing is that I believe when Reagan starts to fall, he'll fall like a crowbar.

Q. Why will he fall?

A. First of all, his record on everything, domestic and foreign, is an abomination, and we intend to remind voters of it: when he called the League of Women Voters the "Rhine Maidens," when he said he wanted to tear up SALT II. Second, Reagan doesn't know anything about the Federal Government. He particularly doesn't know anything about international affairs, security matters and economics. I think the contrast with Carter is pretty impressive. Carter does know Government now, he's able, and he understands the complexities of these problems.

Q. If Reagan has all these shortcomings --baggage, if you will--how has he got so far?

A. Because the [Republican] crowd likes that baggage. If you can believe it, the Republican Party came out against the Equal Rights Amendment in Minnesota! They're off to the right. I don't think they represent the country.

Q. Many people like your party, but they have trouble liking your candidate because of his record. How do you intend to take your message to America?

A. I think we haven't made our case. In fact, I think we've done a very poor job educating the public. We've done an awful lot that the people are not aware of--or not as aware of as they should be--in the areas of our cities, health, energy and the economy.

Q. Why has the President had such trouble getting across a sense of direction for the country?

A. It's partly the President's style. He likes to deal with detail. He likes to have an answer on every issue that appeals to his engineering mind as being quantitatively correct in as substantial a way as possible. I think most politicians tend to move in a different way; to look at the broader political dimensions of a problem.

Q. One of Governor Reagan's most effective tactics is, in essence, running against Government. How are you going to deal with that?

A. Here's how he does it. No matter what the problems are, he says, "We'll cut your taxes." He's going to cut taxes in America by $1 trillion in the next decade, and he's going to raise the defense budget dramatically, and he's going to balance the budget, and then he generalizes about how inefficient Government is. His economic policy is nonsense. Our surveys show that by 2 to 1, the American people think that it's nonsense, that it's inflationary, that it cannot work, and that's one of the reasons that I think he's going to fall like a crowbar.

Q. Just how does a crowbar fall?

A. Awfully fast.

Q. What did you think of Jerry Ford's effort at the Republican National Convention to redefine your job?

A. Reagan's first attempt to strengthen America was to divide and dilute the presidency. You can only have one President. It's hard enough for the President to be in command. If anything, the presidency has been weakened too much in recent years. I think we need to strengthen the presidency again, not in terms of an excess of unaccountable power, but you know, it is really a pathetic sight that you leave a President with $1.95 a year to conduct foreign relations. For example, in the case of Nicaragua, where a little help early on might have strengthened the moderate forces, we had to spend three-quarters of the year fooling around with nothing [before Congress appropriated $75 million in economic aid to Nicaragua in May]. The way it is now, they figure the President might make a mistake, so they won't let him do anything. And that's the biggest mistake of all. Because the Government's got to make mistakes once in a while in order to get something done. It's hard enough for a President to get command. Good gosh, it's unbelievable now how many private governments there are running around on their own that you can't find. I hate to pick up the paper every morning and find out who's doing what and why. We've got to stop that. We've got to stop it by strengthening the presidency, not by diluting it and watering it down.

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