Monday, Apr. 10, 1978
Weizman: "Not Here for Oil or Silver'
Israel's Defense Minister, Ezer Weizman, is as well known to his countrymen for his wry wit as for his distinguished war record. Last week, before flying to Cairo for discussions with Egypt's President Sadat and War Minister Mohammed Abdel Ghany Gamassy, Weizman informally addressed a TIME news tour of businessmen and editors about his country's problems. Excerpts:
I was born and bred in Israel, I was 54 in June and I have been fighting for almost 40 years. There are historical reasons why our ancestors decided to build the Jewish state in Palestine and not in California. We're not here just because we thought the sand of the Negev or the arid land of old Palestine was a place where we could drill for oil or could find silver. To be honest, I used to go to San Diego quite a lot before I was plunged back into politics, and I always used to say, "Why, why, did our ancestors not go to San Diego?"
P: For President Sadat to come to Israel was something magnificent. But as a result of this euphoria, he expected that anything that he said or wished must be done. I told him seven weeks ago in Aswan, and I hope he will excuse me if I repeat something I told him there, "President Sadat, what you did by coming to Jerusalem I usually refer to as the equivalent of the act of the first man landing on the moon." He enjoyed this very much. But then I told him, "But Mr. President, the first man on the moon came back down to earth. The problem now is how can everyone return to earth and stop orbiting. I think you have to realize, the Egyptians have to realize, that you cannot forget 30 years of misunderstanding, 30 years of hard battles."
P: In any peace agreement we shall have to bear in mind the security problems of Israel. I had the dubious pleasure the morning of May 13, 1948, of having a Jordanian column trying to cut the country in half. I wouldn't like that to happen again. When President Sadat, in Ismailia, got a little annoyed with me and said, "Ezer, if this doesn't go through, I'll have you chased all over the world." I replied, "Please, Mr. President, the first time I started chasing you was 20 kilometers south of Tel Aviv in May 1948, and look where we are now. Let's not start chasing each other again."
P: The Egyptians did a 90DEG turn in their policy by coming here and offering us peace. We did a 90DEG turn by going all the way toward them in Sinai and some of the way in the West Bank. People always claim that from a security point of view, perhaps we are exaggerating. I would like to remind you that we are 3 million, surrounded by about 100 million. It's very interesting to be part of a 3 million population surrounded directly by 70 million to 80 million and be branded an aggressor. It's a very good compliment, but I wish we didn't have it.
P: The West Bank was never a sovereign part of Jordan. The U.S. never recognized the annexation. The Gaza strip was never a sovereign part of Egypt. Egypt doesn't want it, doesn't claim it. Egypt says, and President Carter says, that they don't want a Palestinian state on the West Bank. So to whom should we return it? Why can't we talk about some common effort to rule, to govern, to administer the West Bank? Isn't there some logic in Israel's proposal for autonomy for the West Bank, since it has never been functionally part of either Jordan or Israel?
P: Ever since we started in 1948, our air force has had priority targets--for bombing Egypt, Libya, all over the place, even to the U.S.! [Laughter.] We never had such targets in Saudi Arabia, because its wealth is all east of the Persian Gulf and we had no reason to attack them. But now there is the Tabuk airbase, about 180 miles from Eilat--in the middle of miles and miles and miles of sand. Why is it there? Not to defend Saudi Arabia, but to be able to take part in a battle against Israel. So why should the U.S. sell them the most sophisticated war toys while we are in the middle of peace negotiations?
P: I don't want to be critical of Hussein, he's got problems. He's a King, and who am I to criticize Kings? I've never met him--not secretly, not clandestinely, but I hope to meet him some day. I think he made a few mistakes. I think he made a mistake when he attacked us in '67. I think he made a mistake when he did not attack us in '73. I think he made a mistake when he didn't come to see Sadat in Jerusalem in '77. But what does he claim about 1967? On the morning of June 5, we sent a message to Hussein through the good offices of the U.N.: "Don't start and we won't." When the shooting began, there was no plan for attacking the West Bank. The next thing we knew, he was shooting at [Israeli] Jerusalem, at the civilian quarters. When we took the West Bank, Hussein said, "But Nasser told me that you were burning."
Among us Jews there are differences of opinion--on tactics, on principles. But you'd be surprised how united we can be. All the rumors now are that people are ambushing Prime Minister Begin, but he has gone through many ambushes in his life. He went through Siberia, Poland, the British period, and he will live through this period too.
P: People forget why we moved into the Sinai in 1967. The straits were closed, the Egyptian army marched into the Sinai with 800 tanks, the whole world sat back and said, "It was very nice knowing you for 19 years." No one came to help us. King Hussein signed an alliance with Nasser, may his soul rest in peace. General Gamassy told me that from the Egyptian point of view, 1967 was a great mistake. How do I know that, when I come to an agreement with them and go back to the 1967 borders, that one day there will be not a good Gamassy but a bad Gamassy, that there'll be a different President who will think that his agreement with us is wrong? We are willing to take phenomenal risks. But let's not forget what has happened in the last 30 years. I believe there is more than a chance [for peace], but I wouldn't like people to believe that there is an easy way and a simple way.
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