The Talker

In the midst of the Cuban crisis, on Oct. 24, the day Soviet ships altered their course to avoid collision with the U.S. Navy, a U.S. businessman in Moscow was negotiating a trade deal with Soviet officials. Suddenly, their talks were interrupted by a phone call from the Kremlin: Nikita Khrushchev would be happy to receive William E. Knox, president of Westinghouse International Co. Knox had not asked for the interview, so Khrushchev, as he often does, was obviously trying to use an American visitor to pipe some of his views into the U.S. This week Knox revealed what was said, and the account of the three-hour session once again showed Khrushchev as one of the world's more arresting conversationalists.

Living with a Goat. "Now let's discuss foreign trade." Khrushchev began, almost at the start. He criticized U.S. restrictions on strategic exports to the Soviet Union, noted that even a lead pencil could be put to military use in drawing a map. When he discussed a new Soviet policy granting manufacturing licenses to foreign industry, Knox interrupted to ask facetiously for a license to make "the latest type of Soviet rocket booster." Khrushchev laughed and jokingly suggested trading design information on Soviet boosters for designs of U.S. nuclear submarines and Polaris missiles, both of which he said he admired. He added that he would not give 10 kopeks for a license covering the U.S. atomic aircraft carrier or. for that matter, any surface warship, which he considered obsolete and merely coffins for their crews.

On Cuba the Soviet boss sounded far more belligerent than his later actions. He admitted that Soviet thermonuclear warheads were in Cuba--although next day, Oct. 25, in the United Nations. Soviet Delegate Valerian Zorin was still publicly denying U.S. charges. Inevitably, Khrushchev illustrated a point with an anecdote. U.S.-Cuban relations reminded him of a man who came upon hard times and found it necessary to live with a goat; the man was uncomfortable, but it soon became a way of life. Cuba, said Khrushchev, was the U.S.'s goat. "You are not happy about it and you won't like it, but you will learn to live with it." As for the U.S quarantine, Khrushchev threatened that if the U.S. Navy tried to search Soviet vessels, he would order Soviet submarines to sink the U.S. ships.

Trouble with the Library. Khrushchev said he would hate to believe that President Kennedy acted as he did because of imminent U.S. elections. He added that, although he had his troubles with Eisenhower, he was sure that if Ike were still President the issue would have been handled in what he called a more mature manner. Part of the U.S.-Russian differences, said Khrushchev, stemmed from the fact that his eldest son was older than Kennedy.

Only once did Khrushchev veer from world events. Leaning toward a group of pushbuttons, he avoided a big red button, pushed a black one. which almost immediately brought an assistant to his side. After a quick, untranslated conversation in Russian, the assistant left, and came back a few minutes later with a biography of Baldassare Cossa, a successful pirate who became Pope John XXIII in 1410.

In his opinion, said Khrushchev, the present John XXIII had taken the same name and number to confuse history.* Nevertheless, he added, the book was amusing. Khrushchev then autographed it for Knox, but suddenly professed to realize that it was not his. He exclaimed: "I am going to be in trouble, for it's a library book." Then he added, "Never mind, I will take the responsibility for it."

* Historians now agree that the first John XXIII had not been validly elected, since there were three rival factions claiming the papacy at the time.

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